CHRIS O’KEEFE, HOST: Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister of Australia, is on the line. PM, thanks for your time.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: G'day, Chris. Good to be with you.
O’KEEFE: I want to start with our borders. There's a story in the Sydney Morning Herald this afternoon that you are mothballing Nauru Detention Centre. Why are you doing that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're not.
O’KEEFE: So why has it been reported like that?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't know. From time to time, media get things wrong.
O’KEEFE: There's a line item I noticed in the Budget papers that says there will be a $250 million saving from mothballing Nauru, that is taking detainees out of the detention centre. Is that not what's happening?
PRIME MINISTER: No absolutely, look from time to time, things get line items and because of budget reporting, amongst thet, all of the Budget papers that are there. But I assure you we have recently, as you'd be aware, Operation Sovereign Borders is in place. We now don't send people to PNG because that facility is closed. Nauru is open. The Nauru President, actually, I'm catching up with him hopefully I think next week when he comes to Australia. But that is open, that is where people will be sent who arrive in an unauthorised fashion because they won't be allowed to settle in Australia.
O’KEEFE: Been a few of them lately. Why so many of them have been trying to get into Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, from time to time, these people smugglers, this evil business, will have a crack. But Operation Sovereign Borders is in place. It's never had more funding than it has today. And our position is very clear. Which is we want an orderly migration system in this country and we won't allow anyone who arrives in that fashion to be settled here because we don't want the evil business of people smuggling to exist and we also don't want people to risk their lives in coming here on boats.
O’KEEFE: After the High Court debacle, do you think they're trying their hand? And three boats in a week, is that making you nervous?
PRIME MINISTER: No, because our system is in place and no one is being allowed to settle here. From time to time this will happen, people will have a crack. There were people under the former government wandering around the north coast of Queensland. And there have been some issues here, but they've been dealt with. They've been dealt with expeditiously and Operation Sovereign Borders is in place.
O’KEEFE: Why have you decided to take $1 billion out of border protection over the next four years? That is in the Budget.
PRIME MINISTER: That's nonsense. Border protection has never had more investment than it has today. And those comments have been confirmed by the people who actually run Operation Sovereign Borders. Just to quote Michael Outram -
O’KEEFE: Your staff.
PRIME MINISTER: No, they're actually public servants. The Commissioner of the Australian Border Force has said this, ‘Border Force funding is currently the highest it's been since its establishment in 2015, and in the last year, the ABF, Australian Border Force has received additional funding, totalling hundreds of millions of dollars’. They've been very clear. We provided some $569 million additional funding in the 2024-25 Budget to boost the capabilities that underpin the safety and security of our borders, including significant investments that we're making in planes, in boats, in unmanned vehicles, for Operation Sovereign Borders.
O’KEEFE: I'm just having a look at the change from 2024-2025 because now you're holding it to me I'll read it out. So, $344,000 has been shaved off the border protection Budget for 25-26, $344,000 for 26-27, 27-28, $373,000. Cumulative reduction of just over a billion dollars.
PRIME MINISTER: No, the government is delivering $1.31 billion more than the former government had promised for border protection. That is our very clear position and that's been confirmed whether it be by the Commissioner Outram or whether it be the Commander of the joint Agency Task Force of Operation Sovereign Borders, Rear Admiral Brett Sonter has been very clear about this. He's also been very clear about the negativity in any alternative narrative which does get exploited by criminal people smugglers out there. We need to send, and I'm sending through this interview again, a very clear message - Operation Sovereign Borders is in place. Not a single person who has come here as an unauthorised boat arrival on my Prime Ministership has settled here.
O’KEEFE: Power bills. Taking money away from Australians through taxation and then giving it back to them to pay some of their power bills. There's been many who have said that that seems an around about way to do things.
PRIME MINISTER: No, well we provided, of course, energy bill relief previously. That was successful not only in providing some support, but also on reducing inflation, and that is something that is very positive. Now we've made a decision in last night's Budget that energy bill relief will go to every household - $300. But also that you will have support for small business. We're a government for all Australians. This is a Budget for all Australians. And what we're doing directly reduces inflation and directly helps Australians who need this support, just as we made the decision -
O’KEEFE: But do we all need it, though? I don't need it. Do you and Jodie need it? Vonny and I don't need it. Does every Australian need $300 off their power bill?
PRIME MINISTER: Well what we have done, and we make no apology for this, we want to be a government for all Australians. And that's why we provided a tax cut for all Australians. We lowered the first amount from 19 cents to 16 cents, that first marginal tax rate. Now that meant that people earning under $45,000 got a tax cut. They were going to get nothing. But we did something else as well, we also increased right through the system so that the first increase in the top marginal tax rate we lifted, where it kicks in from $180,000 to $190,000. The first change in that since 2012. We wanted to assist people right throughout the system. And that is what we have done. Tax cuts for every taxpayer, energy bill relief for every household.
O’KEEFE: But leave tax cuts aside. But why? Why for every Australian household for the power bill relief?
PRIME MINISTER: Because every Australian household is deserving of support from the government. We have other measures which are targeted. We have rent assistance that's targeted, a 10 per cent increase on top of the 15 per cent increase that we had last year.
O’KEEFE: But lots of Australians are deserving of lots of things. That doesn't mean that we give taxpayer money to them, right?
PRIME MINISTER: What we do in a range of areas is provide universally, and we do that for a range of reasons. One, because it can often be simpler for it to work that way, and because of the way that the rebates work with energy companies. It's difficult to devise a system other than if you had what the previous system was, which is for people on family payments or on welfare, essentially to receive the support. We wanted to make sure that we delivered for middle Australia. That's one of the reasons why we changed the tax cuts. The biggest beneficiaries of the changes are those people in middle incomes, just as we wanted to make sure the people on middle incomes, as you know Chris, some of your listeners will be people, working people. They might be earning $150,000, 180,000 between them -
O’KEEFE: I understand that. I understand.
PRIME MINISTER: And we wanted to make sure that they were not left behind and they weren’t left out.
O’KEEFE: I understand. I understand your political lines, but isn't the truth this - you promised we'd get $275 off our bills when you went to an election in 2022, and you said that it would happen by the end of 2025. You know that won't happen. Our power bills have gone up by $680 since you came to government. And with this rebate, you are conceding to all Australians, you've got to break the promise.
PRIME MINISTER: No, one of the things that you know, Chris, as well, is that globally we've had the biggest energy crisis in 50 years, since the OAPEC oil crisis of 1974. That's just a fact. So you've had energy prices go up substantially in many countries like the UK and in Europe, much higher than they went here in Australia, and that has had an impact. That's just something that we have had to deal with because of a flow on impact of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
O’KEEFE: That's why you don't promise things you might not be able to deliver. I've got to move on because I don't want to, I just, I don't want to run out of time here. I want to talk about, and I'm a full throated supporter of making things and manufacturing stuff here in Australia. But I'll say this, if we are going to back winners with discounts on their tax, do billionaires like Andrew Twiggy Forrest really need a tax break?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what production tax credits do and the way that they work is they're a refundable tax credit that do reduce the tax bill of companies that are producing either, in this case, the two industries that we've singled out are green hydrogen and critical minerals. Now the payment is made through the tax system. For critical minerals, what it will be is 10 per cent of eligible processing costs, and for hydrogen, it'll be $2 a kilogram for green hydrogen. Now companies won't receive any credit, so no advantage until they've actually produced these resources. And what you need to do, if you're going to support what is essentially a start-up industry, then you need to make sure that you get above the hump, that initial period, which is necessary. Now this incentive will make domestic production more cost competitive and will boost Australian industry. At a time when we had the US with the Inflation Reduction act, we had the Europeans, the Japanese, the Koreans, all putting in place measures. Now we want to make sure that we make things here in Australia and there are a range of measures that we have in the Budget. We can compete. The good news, Chris, is that we are positioned in the fastest growing region of the world in human history. We have the resources under the ground - cobalt, vanadium, all of these –
O’KEEFE: Uranium.
PRIME MINISTER: We can make green hydrogen here. We can then use that green hydrogen to power metal manufacturing such as green aluminium, green steel that can make sure that our regions continue to prosper -
O’KEEFE: If it's realistic. If it is realistic.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's happening, Chris. This is a change in the global economy that is happening as the world moves towards net zero. Now, we can either sit back and watch the world go past us or we can engage. And this is about how do you, not how does government replace the private sector, how does government action facilitate private sector investment and job creation? Because it's the private sector that will drive this and that's what a future made in Australia is all about.
O’KEEFE: And that's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm worried about. Because the private sector often don't play ball, unlike others. I'm not defeatist when it comes to our national interest and our competitive advantages here in Australia, but look, I like the fact that we're having a go of trying to make things here. I just worry about the industries that government will pick. Now, before I let you go because I've run out of time, I just want a couple of brief comments on things.
PRIME MINISTER: Sure.
O’KEEFE: Wayne Bennett, back to the Bunnies. Good or bad?
PRIME MINISTER: Always good. The man's a genius.
O’KEEFE: You've got hundreds of billions of dollars in the federal government. You're in the seat of Grayndler. You're going to throw a couple of shekels to Leichhardt Oval to keep it up and going?
PRIME MINISTER: We're working through those issues with the NRL, have made a very strong submission.
O’KEEFE: There we go. Prime Minister, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
PRIME MINISTER: Good on you, Chris. Always good to chat.