GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: The Prime Minister is in Western Australia. He's been addressing a business breakfast this morning and he joins me on the line. Thanks very much for your time, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much. Good to be with you. But can I just begin by joining the follow up to the tragic issue you've been discussing and just say that I think the whole nation's heart goes out to the parents of Callum and Jake Robinson. It is every parent's worst nightmare to lose a son or a daughter. To lose these two brothers is just awful. And my deepest sympathies and condolences and I'm sure the whole nations, are with the parents and with the other family and friends of these two fine young Australians.
ADSHEAD: I think, Prime Minister, and you relate to this, of course, as a parent, but you sort of, you get your kids to a certain point in their life and you think, “righto, done. Well, you know, they're there now.” And then suddenly, what do they do? They take a holiday, they go surfing and they're not coming back.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah. And when our young ones travel, and mine's reached that age, you know, went to a music festival in Spain last year and did a bit of travelling with a group of friends. You do worry, but you think, as well, that's part of the Australian rite of passage, is travelling around with a backpack and, you know, meeting people, and it's how you grow as a person as well, so you want to encourage them. And for this tragedy to occur is just so sad. And I think that's why I think every parent will be really feeling for the Robinsons at this difficult time.
ADSHEAD: Indeed. Very well known in Western Australia, they were, too. Can I just get your reaction quickly to what China said yesterday when they, when they spoke in relation to the incident involving a Seahawk helicopter from HMAS Hobart and the Chinese jet fighter that fired the flares. Now, this is, of course, in the Yellow Sea. They say it was our fault. What's your reaction?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I reject that. I stand by the comments that we've made. And I do note that the comments that the Chinese spokesperson made have said that it was close to Chinese airspace. That's a confirmation that this chopper was in international airspace. It was international waters. And the Australian Defence Force personnel are engaged in upholding international law, upholding the UN sanctions against North Korea. This was unprofessional and unacceptable. And the Chinese spokesperson's comments do nothing to undermine or to question what is the Australian Defence Force’s assessment of the PLA's unsafe behaviour.
ADSHEAD: And I get the rock and a hard place situation that you're in, and given our strong trading ties and the fact that we've been working to try and resolve those tariff issues, etcetera, in recent years, but should you take stronger action, will you speak directly to President Xi, as has been suggested, to voice your protest?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we will take up every opportunity to raise these issues, which we do. One of the things I've said about our relationship with China is that we will cooperate where we can, but we'll disagree where we must and we'll call out behaviour which we regard as unacceptable. I don't think anyone can argue we haven't done that unequivocally and we'll stand up for our national interest. Now, our national interest is about engaging as well. When we engage, we have clear commentary about Australia's position with China, as we do with other nations as well.
ADSHEAD: But the issue is, of course, with that sonar incident that happened with the submarine and our divers and this now, it's sort of their first reaction is to deny or blame Australia. So, some are suggesting that you need to do something hard and fast, like expel Chinese diplomats to send a real message. What do you say to that?
PRIME MINISTER: People will come up with all sorts of proposals. We have made our position very clear, both to those Chinese diplomats here, but also to Beijing. We're making it clear publicly what our position is and we won't be shy about taking the opportunities to raise these issues, to make the strongest representations possible. We will always support our Defence personnel and we have made representations through Defence channels as well as through our diplomatic sources as well. We'll continue to do so.
ADSHEAD: Can I ask you, though, I mean, clearly, the Coalition, right up until the next election, are going to run a narrative that you're a weak Prime Minister. Could you play into their hands if you don't, aren't seen to be taking a firm, firmer stance against China on this?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you know, we won't be taking lectures from Peter Dutton, who we would encourage him to actually stand up for Australia here. Why look for political differentiation on Australia's national interest, like back Australia in, don't try to look for, on every issue, an area of disagreement with Australia. This is a dispute between Australia and China. And I would hope that every Australian representative backs in our nation.
ADSHEAD: So, you would deny their references, their continual references, it seems to be a mantra running through all of their spokespeople at the moment, that you're a weak Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: You know, they push absolute nonsense all the time in order to hide the fact that people think that Peter Dutton is arrogant, won't listen, has no sense of compassion about any issue, and that's what it's about. That says more about Peter Dutton and the very correct, I think, perception that Australians have of him rather than anything else. I think it says more about Peter Dutton than it does about any of my character. I've been prepared to stand up for Australia's interests to repair our relations with the region, including with the Pacific nations, many of whom were completely alienated by the former Government's approach. And I think the closeness of the relationship that you've seen develop between Australia and Papua New Guinea, between all of the Pacific nations, through the Pacific Island Forum, for example, is one way in which we have engaged in a serious way to achieve outcomes and to improve Australia's national interests. And we have Richard Marles and Penny Wong as our Defence and Foreign Affairs spokespeople who are engaged in the region. I doubt whether any of your listeners can remember who their last foreign affairs spokesperson was because she wasn't engaged at all in the region and we were at a disadvantage at a time where there is strategic competition in the region. If you look at the repairing of relations, not just there, but with other nations as well, the relationship with the US and the UK has never been stronger through turning AUKUS from an idea into a practical reality that's making an enormous difference and will bring jobs and economic activity here in Western Australia, but also repairing relations with countries like France that we have done as well.
ADSHEAD: Well, I have to ask you, you're in Western Australia, regarding the immigration detainee controversies. Now, in the light of the shocking bashing of grandmother Ninette Simons here in Perth, do you know right now how many released offenders in WA are wearing GPS tracking ankle bracelets?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we don't comment on the specifics when it comes to these issues. We, of course, to go back a bit, the decision to release these detainees was the result of a High Court case. If it was up to me, that wouldn't have happened. But we have to comply with the law and whoever was in government would have had to have complied with that law. We have established a Community Protection Board made up of trusted experts, including former Police Commissioners, before decisions are signed off by the ABF. But all of us, I think every Australian's heart would go out to people affected here. Ninette Simons, we have seen the photos of her, are heartbreaking. And no one wants to see violence in any form. There were three people involved, allegedly in this incident, and it's now, of course, a matter that is before the courts.
ADSHEAD: But did the Board fail Ninette Simons with that decision?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've made it, I've made it clear that it's not a position that I would have taken if it was a political decision. But one of the things that the High Court decision said at its core, it was that politicians couldn't make punitive decisions, that if they did, they would be overturned by courts. We know that from the High Court and that's why we have been at every opportunity dealing with legislation. And indeed, the last piece of legislation that we introduced, you'll recall, has been held up by a coalition of the Liberal Party, the National Party and the Greens who sat back and had a long Senate inquiry even though they voted for legislation in the House of Representatives on one day, on the Tuesday, and voted against it on the Wednesday. We're prepared to take whatever tough action we can within the law, bearing in mind the decision of the High Court. And that is why we've taken the positions we have. I hope that when Parliament resumes next week that the Senate actually votes for our tough legislation.
ADSHEAD: Yeah, but Prime Minister, I mean, that panel that you talked about, I mean, clearly this person had been brought back before them because of breaches of curfew. There was an opportunity there to deal with that. Why did they fail to, have you asked them?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a board which is independent of politicians that makes these recommendations. And with respect to bail, that's a decision of a court here in WA.
ADSHEAD: That's only if no one opposes it. I mean, if no one opposes bail, then it's easy decision for a court.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's not right. That's not right. That's not right.
ADSHEAD: An easier decision for a court if there's no opposition to bail by Commonwealth prosecutors.
PRIME MINISTER: Courts make decisions and that is a decision of the WA court that was made. I've made it clear, it's certainly not a decision that I would have made, but it wasn't a political decision. It was a decision by a court.
ADSHEAD: Well, okay, I don't want to linger on it, but I mean, in the court transcript it's pretty clear that the magistrate is surprised that there's no opposition and describes the Commonwealth's approach as being very generous before that decision is made. I mean, I'm getting down to the fact that a person was bashed perhaps because of a decision that –
PRIME MINISTER: And that shouldn't have occurred. But there were other people involved in that incident as well. And it is, it's a terrible incident. Shouldn’t have occurred.
ADSHEAD: Okay, but you don't think it's not terrible enough for you to move on some of your Ministers who have been overseeing this mess?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't want to see violence occur for anyone, whether it be from someone who was a former detainee who'd been released as a result of the High Court or anyone else. Now, I don't know who was involved, who the other two people are allegedly involved in this incident, but I don't want to see actions of violence by anyone against anyone. That's my starting position. The courts have a role, and the courts are in Australia, thank goodness, because we're not an authoritarian regime, the courts are independent of political processes.
ADSHEAD: All right, can I just take you to the Budget just quickly, because I know we're running out of time, but I'll ask the question, given what we heard from the RBA yesterday, will it help bring down inflation, and therefore possibly interest rates, by the end of the year? What would you say to that? Is that what this Budget will achieve?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the decision on interest rates, of course, are independent by the Reserve Bank. But what we have done is make sure that we're very conscious, we want fiscal policy to work with monetary policy. We turned a $78 billion deficit into a $22 billion surplus last year. All of the cost of living measures that we have put in place have been directed at providing assistance for people in a way that doesn't put pressure on inflation. And that's why we've seen a moderating of inflation, at the same time as we've seen an increase in real wages, at the same time as we've seen unemployment remain with a three in front of it. We want to make sure that we do what we can to bring down inflation whilst dealing with cost of living pressures which people are feeling. And that's why our tax cuts were designed to give a tax cut to every Australian taxpayer. That's why the other measures that we've put in place, things like Fee Free TAFE, cheaper childcare, our energy price relief plan, have all been measures that have not only provided assistance to people, but have assisted in putting that downward pressure on inflation.
ADSHEAD: Prime Minister, I do appreciate your time on your busy morning. Thanks very much for that.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.