PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Prime Minister, welcome to the program.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Patricia. Good to be with you.
KARVELAS: The $925 million you've announced offers $5,000 in emergency assistance to women who are fleeing violence, but the full scheme does not start until the middle of next year. Why do women have to wait?
PRIME MINISTER: Well there is already a trial going ahead. We want to make sure that the processes are in place, that they will begin within the next financial year as a permanent program. Not just offering financial support, but as well as that offering support for referral services, risk assessments, safety planning and other support.
KARVELAS: Ok. Australians are demanding action to stop men killing women. They want urgent and immediate solutions. Have they been let down by yesterday's announcements?
PRIME MINISTER: Not at all. We understand that Australians want action and so did every Premier and Chief Minister, as well as the national government when we met yesterday. This comes on top of the $2.3 billion that we committed in our first two budgets, record funding that we have done. Yesterday made steps forward. It's not job done. This isn't something that you solve with a meeting on one day. This is something that governments are determined to take action on. For some of us, this is deeply personal. For others, it is incredibly important. And I note today there's a report as well on the front page of the Herald about the fact that across the NSW Parliament, across men, across the political spectrum, there is overwhelming support for action to be taken. And I think that is something that women were demanding. It's something also that their allies are demanding as well. And overwhelmingly, the Australian public wants to work on this and they know that this isn't something for government alone. This is something that requires a whole of society response to what is a whole of society problem.
KARVELAS: For sure, but there has to be better accountability. And while we talk in generalities, sometimes that gets missed. Do you accept personal responsibility for trying to reduce the rate that women are being killed?
PRIME MINISTER: Everyone has personal responsibility, but particularly people in positions of political power. All governments have to do better, I've made that very clear and everyone accepted that. It requires education, it requires a response in terms of funding, it requires a change in attitude. The media have a role to play in this as well. And yesterday we had two significant tranches of reform. The first, that support for a permanent leaving violence program with considerable funding of $1 billion over five years. But secondly, the suite of online measures that we announced yesterday that are really important. We know that since the Victorian Royal Commission, for example, reported in 2016, since then technology has changed some of the challenges which are there. People having access to deepfake pornography for example is an issue that wasn't around in 2016. We will introduce legislation to ban it.
KARVELAS: I want to talk to you about the specifics of this program because you're spending, as you say, close to a billion dollars, so it's not insignificant. Figures published by the Guardian showed that less than half of the applications for that payment made between July and September last year were approved. So that means basically half of the women applying were knocked back. Will you change that so that every woman who applies gets it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well what we'll do is make sure, of course, when you're talking about handing over taxpayers money, you always have to make sure that there are some processes in place to ensure that it goes to the people who are eligible. We'll put in place proper measures, and that's why we've made this announcement. The funding will be there in the Budget in two weeks time.
KARVELAS: Yeah, but I'm asking about the guidelines. Do you think it's acceptable that half of the women who apply are knocked back?
PRIME MINISTER: I think, Patricia, that we need to make sure that people who deserve it, people who need it, get this payment. And I think overwhelmingly we need to make sure that any doubt which is there goes towards the person making the application is absolutely critical that people get this payment.
KARVELAS: Okay, so you want to make it easier, just sort of simplifying it for our listeners. You do want to make it easier, you don't like the rejection rate at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't like the idea that anyone who should be getting this payment hasn't got this payment, to be very clear.
KARVELAS: This scheme, which was originally a Morrison Government pilot program, offers $1500 in cash and $3,500 in goods and services. How does that help beyond the first few weeks, especially during a cost of living crisis? It won't get a woman escaping violence very far, will it?
PRIME MINISTER: Patricia, what this is, is a leaving violence payment. There are then other payments kick in, as you would be aware, that people could be eligible for. And one of the things that it provides isn't just the $5,000 in financial support, that's why we're adjusting the scheme to make sure it can deliver a longer-term benefit. So things like supporting pathways for housing, for other income support. Providing that additional support is important, not just here’s $5,000, you're on your own. But providing that really important advice and support so that people can get back on their feet. In addition to that, there's the other measures that we’ve put in place. The Housing Australia Future Fund, we've allocated 4000 places there for women and children escaping domestic violence.
KARVELAS: And does there need in the budget to be more investment in housing? I know what you've already announced, but will there be more? Because if you look at the services, they're saying they're stretched and there's nowhere they can house the women that are coming to them.
PRIME MINISTER: They are, Patricia, that's why we've got funding available. Funding available has been forwarded to the states and territories, including $2 billion forwarded last June for the Social Housing Accelerator. States and territories have that money. They can invest in new homes, including emergency service homes, to make sure that these issues are addressed.
KARVELAS: PM, the Economic Inclusion Report released last week and chaired by former Labor Minister, Jenny Macklin, who I spoke to a little earlier, recommended increasing JobSeeker to seven, you know, by $17 a day. In fact, she says that's needed for women fleeing violence. Will you do it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we'll have a budget on May 14, and that's when we make announcements.
KARVELAS: Do you agree with her that women who are fleeing violence need that payment to be increased?
PRIME MINISTER: I agree that we'll have a budget on May 14, Patricia. And you would agree -
KARVELAS: Well I agree with that too, because it's a fact. But I'm asking the substantive question about income support.
PRIME MINISTER: No, you're asking me to make budget announcements today, and I won't be doing that, Patricia. We've received the report, along with a whole range of other submissions, and we make budget announcements on Budget night. What we did yesterday was bring forward an announcement that we've been working on for the lead up to the Budget. That was a $925 million announcement that we made yesterday.
KARVELAS: Yeah, it's interesting you say you brought it forward, because that interests me because what women and their supporters, many men, have been demanding is immediate action to save the next woman who may be at risk of dying at the hands of a violent man. And so if this was already in the budget, where's the advice that this will help women who are at immediate risk right now?
PRIME MINISTER: The advice was to us from people such as the Commissioner, who we heard from yesterday, Micaela Cronin. The advice has been the work that we have done through Amanda Rishworth, who's been working on these issues, along with Katy Gallagher, the Minister for the Status of Women. This comes on top of the $2.3 billion we've allocated in our first two budgets. This isn't something where you wake up one day and take action. This is something that requires concerted action day after day, week after week, month after month, by governments at all levels, and that is something that my government is determined to do.
KARVELAS: Ok. Last year, Women's Legal Services Australia revealed that 1000 women a week are being turned away due to lack of capacity. Will there be further announcements for them?
PRIME MINISTER: Well we're going to look, as I've said Patricia, at the full range of services and support that is required. We've put considerable additional funding into legal services already in our first two budgets. And one of the areas that that has benefited is women in this terrible situation. We continue to examine everything across the board of what we can do to make a difference.
KARVELAS: You say the job is not done and I think people will hear that and say, ‘okay, that sounds positive’. So, you see this as the first step and there will be more coming in the Budget? Is that what you're saying?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a step forward, Patricia. This is a national crisis. Yesterday we heard for example, from state and territory governments about matters that are within their jurisdictions. So a commitment to examine measures such as education. And we looked at, Premier Allan reported about the increased respectful relationships learning that is a part of the Victorian curriculum, whether that can be extended. There's the justice issues, bail laws, all of those matters. Monitoring of perpetrators, that needs to be examined as well to ensure that there is best practice. There's funding issues with regard to housing as well, and other issues that are a barrier to women being able to flee violent situations. We'll look across the border at all of these measures. Yesterday was a step forward, but this is a national crisis that hasn't developed in a week, or a month, or a year. It requires concerted action from government. We made a step forward yesterday, there'll be further steps forward in the future.
KARVELAS: PM, we've got a road toll, we don't have a national toll of women killed by violence. Will you fund that?
PRIME MINISTER: And that's one of the things that we discussed yesterday was data. That's why there's a range of measures that we will examine in the lead up to, we've said there'll be another meeting of the National Cabinet in quarter three, that is in the very next quarter so we're not kicking this can down the road. And one of the issues to be examined is data collection.
KARVELAS: Ok, so you do want to fund the publishing of official data of the toll of women killed?
PRIME MINISTER: We want to work with state and territory governments on data collection. We want to work on cross border issues as well to make sure, just as we worked on a National Firearms Register, what we want to make sure that is that if there are perpetrators who are crossing state boundaries, that that data and appropriate information is available. So there's a range of issues that we have to examine. That work will take place with the first secretaries group, that is the heads of the Premiers in each of the states and territories, as well as Prime Minister and Cabinet. We continue to do that. We will have a meeting in the next quarter to hear back a range of work that has been tasked as a result of yesterday's meeting.
KARVELAS: What's your message to people listening who think, ‘Ok, the government's doing some work here, but they're not understanding the urgency here’, that they're not responding with the urgency that they want, because that's been one of the critiques. Do you get it?
PRIME MINISTER: We are acting urgently. We understand the extent of this crisis. That's why we met yesterday, that's why we made immediate funding announcements yesterday. That's why I will continue to work on this. There’s a royal commission that has happened in Victoria, there's one underway in South Australia. There's other work underway in each of the states and territories. In our federated system, as you know Patricia, areas such as community services, housing, the law and justice system, are all the responsibility primarily of states and territories -
KARVELAS: Yeah, that's true. So, on that question -
PRIME MINISTER: So we need to make sure that we bring people together.
KARVELAS: Yeah, but of course the Commonwealth has levers. You know, the amount of money that you hand to states and territories to start with is one of them. Do you want to see electric -
PRIME MINISTER: We then need to make sure the money's spent, Patricia. So for example, we have forwarded considerable money on housing. We've forwarded money on community service workers. We want 500 additional workers that will be funded by the Commonwealth -
KARVELAS: You mentioned that, I have to interrupt to ask, why are there so few that have been deployed?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're not responsible for employing them. What we've done is provide the financing, and one of the things that we made clear yesterday is that states and territories have to get on with making sure that people are employed and that that money, which has been forwarded, two tranches, to the states and territories is spent.
KARVELAS: So, are the states and territories too slow then? What's your message to them?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course we need to speed up, but there are workforce issues. That's one of the contradictions in this. I was in Alice Springs on Monday, there is funding available for more support workers to be employed, there aren't people to fill those positions. It's one of the issues that we have been discussing. So that's part of the challenge, is making sure that people who are employed to provide this assistance at what can be a very difficult time to vulnerable or at risk women, that that support is there in a professional and appropriate way. And states and territories yesterday, one of the things that they committed to was to speed up the expenditure, if you like, the employment of people. We’ve provided the funding, we want to see those places filled.
KARVELAS: So you're a bit frustrated? It sounds like you're frustrated with the pace.
PRIME MINISTER: No, I'm just pointing out, Patricia, that you can't make an announcement today and have someone in place tomorrow. What we can do as a Commonwealth government is to provide funding - we have done that. I know that states and territories are all committed, across the political spectrum, are all committed to taking action on this. And yesterday was a very constructive meeting. It wasn't about federal or state, you know, backing themselves in. It was about how do we work together to achieve positive outcomes? Because that is what people are looking for.
KARVELAS: PM, a pilot of age assurance technology will be funded in the May budget. What sort of content are you trying to stop young people from accessing?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, inappropriate material, such as violent pornography. A range of material that you as a parent or parents listening to your program today, would not want their children to just be able to click a couple of buttons and to provide themselves, and to end up having access or being exposed to material which is damaging for them. This is a change that is occurring. One of the tragedies of course, is that the way the algorithms work is that it's not like a young person has to go searching for this, sometimes its material searching for them.
KARVELAS: No, it’s everywhere.
PRIME MINISTER: And that is a very dangerous circumstance. It is something that is raised with me by parents, probably more than any other issue, and it's accelerated over a period of time, since my son was young, is that parents are worried about the time that their kids spend online, they're worried about what they have been exposed to, and they're worried about the impact that that has. It's the opposite of teaching people respectful relationships. And we see some of that material, I don't want to advertise one particular fellow who has become quite famous for his misogynistic, violent promotion of imagery internationally. Now that's having an impact here as well as in Europe where it derives from. Now that has an impact on young minds and shaping what is normal. And the tragedy here is that it has a devastating impact on young people, but particularly of course, on young girls and young women and then women, mums and families. It also is denigrating the nature of our relationships. I mean, positive relationships which are respectful, are good for women and kids, but they're also good for men. And that's what we as a society need to have that debate about it. You have a debate at times about freedom of information and those issues, free speech. This isn't free speech to promote hatred and violence and misogyny. We need to have that debate as a society as well. And one of the things that we will do as well is to have a new phase of the Stop it at the Start campaign which will begin in mid-June, that is aimed at counter influencing a campaign in online spaces where this content thrives, to directly challenge the material in the spaces that is being viewed.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, on another issue before we hit the news. Have you asked for an explanation of why the asylum seeker released from indefinite detention and out on bail for other offences was allowed to remove his electronic monitoring bracelet before he allegedly bashed a Perth grandmother?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, my thoughts are very much with Ninette Simons and with those directly affected. It is unacceptable. There's no place for violence in our society. The issue here is, I mean, state bail schemes are -
KARVELAS: But the recommendation was made by the Community Protection Board, a panel of justice system experts set up to scrutinise visa conditions. Have they failed in this instance?
PRIME MINISTER: Well the Community Protection Board is, of course, a board that's independent of politicians.
KARVELAS: But have they failed?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's not appropriate for me to comment on individual cases, particularly ones that are before the courts. And this matter is, of course, before the court.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.