SIMON MARNIE, HOST: Today, the Federal Liberal Party rejected what they've characterised as the 'Canberra Voice'. They say they want local and regional bodies to be the focus. So, whilst not saying they won't support the Voice, they're saying they won't support the Voice in this form. Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, joins us on the line. Prime Minister, what's the likelihood that the referendum on the Voice to Parliament will now fail?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm very hopeful that it will pass with the support of the Australian people. I'm very sad by the response of the Liberal Party today. Peter Dutton and Sussan Ley, at their press conference, spoke all about politics and all about politicians. They know full well this isn't something that's come from politicians, this is something that's come from the ground up, from Indigenous people themselves. More than 1,200 people participating in the process there at Uluru way back in 2017. And that was the culmination, of course, of years of work. And indeed, at the press conference with the Referendum Working Group, Thomas Mayo and others spoke about it being the culmination of generations of work. And of course, this week tragically, we have lost one of the greatest of Australians in Yunupingu, a great leader of the Yolŋu people. And he spoke about it lighting a fire for Australia, to be able to move forward. This can still be a moment of national unity, a moment in which our country is enlarged rather than shrunk, which is what we saw today from the Liberal Party.
MARNIE: If it appears to be around wording, how open are you to changing the wording if it meant bringing the Coalition on board?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've had seven meetings with Peter Dutton. We've been consultative. And this wording, of course, has come through an extensive consultation process. There's been parliamentary inquiries chaired by Julian Leeser and Patrick Dodson. There was a whole report process with Tom Calma and Marcia Langton, and a range of other legal figures and others. That report done by Ken Wyatt, the former Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, under the Morrison Government that went to their Cabinet twice, and nothing happened. And today, what we saw was no progress at all. Just, frankly, a pretty inadequate statement about the Canberra process. It is really a lack of substance when you're just speaking about something as being all about Canberra. It's a pretty cheap shot, really, which diminishes the extraordinary amount of work done, particularly by Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people, but other people in the process as well who have arrived at this position. And I note that they're saying they're against it. They haven't said anything supportive of it during this whole process, that has begun, the more recent process, begun after the last election. Not a single word of suggested change was put forward in between the July speech I gave at the Garma Festival and the legislation that was introduced into the Parliament just last Thursday. And so, it's pretty obvious that there's no genuine position from the Coalition, tragically, coming forward.
MARNIE: They did say they support the recognition of First Nations people in the Constitution. It's the part where they have a constitutionally enshrined consultative body. And whilst I didn't hear the whole press conference, I did note one part where the Opposition Leader used the position of the Solicitor-General and the Attorney-General to cast doubt over the wording as it stands.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's all been about trying to cast out, when in fact the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General both support the position that's going forward, as have former High Court justices like Justice French, Justice Hayne, as has Anne Twomey, who will be on 7.30 this evening, probably Australia's leading academic on constitutional law. There's been extensive consultation here over a long period of time. And John Howard said, when he was Prime Minister, said he supported constitutional recognition. They've said that. We went through nine years of the former Government. And it didn't happen. No position was put forward to the Australian people. This is a very simple proposition. It does two things. It recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the first peoples of Australia in our Constitution. And through a Voice, which is just about consultation, on, to quote what will be the change, 'On matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples'. And then it makes it very clear, I'll read out the wording that is in the legislation that's a subject of a committee process. 'The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures'. So, it makes it very clear that this isn't an extra chamber. This will be subject to the primacy of the Parliament. It is completely confirmed by that provision in the Constitution. And what Australians will be asked to vote for is a proposal to 'Alter the Constitution to recognise the first peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?' That is what will be put to the Australian people sometime between October and December. And I note, why is it that they have come out and made this decision of opposition when the committee that's looking at this legislation, that is a process whereby people will put forward their arguments, hasn't even met yet.
MARNIE: You ask why that is. But Liberal MPs have told the ABC the proposal to have the Voice advise executive government as well as Parliament is the key reason for them opposing it.
PRIME MINISTER: That's a nonsense, of course. The wording, 'Parliament and the executive government' was in the wording that was put forward by people including Julian Leeser, the now Shadow Attorney-General and Shadow Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, way back in 2014. Back in 2014. This has been around for a decade. Peter Dutton, on Saturday night, said that his main task, his first task, was to keep the Liberal Party together. And what has driven today's decision is consistent with that. It's all about the internals and playing old politics. It's not about the needs of Australia or advancing Australia's national interest, nor is it about advancing the interests of a disadvantaged group who still have almost a 10-year life expectancy gap, gaps in education, health, housing, infant mortality, one of the highest incarceration rates of any peoples in the world. Now, if you do the same thing in the same way, you should expect the same outcomes. What we know is that when Indigenous Australians are consulted, you get better outcomes.
MARNIE: Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is with us. You briefed key Opposition members on the wording of the referendum last Thursday. A briefing is a two-way situation. Were you've given a heads up that this would be the Opposition's position today?
PRIME MINISTER: No.
MARNIE: Are you surprised by the Opposition's position today?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I'm not. Because everything that Peter Dutton, in particular, has done has been aimed at undermining the prospects of success. I'm very disappointed that when Julian Leeser was appointed the Shadow Minister, he is someone who historically, to his great credit, has supported a Voice to Parliament, a representative body making representations. And he, to take the position that has been done though, is consistent with where the Liberal Party has been, unfortunately, on this in recent time. In 2019, prior to the election, the Morrison Government made it clear that they were going to do something on these issues. They appointed Ken Wyatt, who has been a part of the Referendum Working Group. And we haven't been partisan about this. We appointed the Morrison Government's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Minister, Ken Wyatt, to the Referendum Working Group. He supports this proposal. We appointed a very broad group, who've come up with this agreed wording with the Government. I met with Peter Dutton and David Littleproud prior to, before it was announced as a matter of courtesy, and to try to do what I could to bring them on board. I've met with Peter Dutton seven times. David Littleproud declared last year, they didn't even wait for anything at all before they declared their opposition. And today, the Liberal Party has done the same.
MARNIE: We've heard from several non-Shadow Cabinet members that they would like to cross the floor to support the Voice. Are you aware of people within the Shadow Cabinet that also feel that way?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I am. But it's a matter for them. But you can look at the public comments that have been made. But I respect the fact that a number of members have been disappointed with the process. We have done our best to be as open and consultative as possible. Almost all of the crossbenchers, I can think of only one exception in the House of Representatives, are supporting the proposal going forward. There's been an extraordinary level of consultation and openness about this. Because this has been asked for a long period of time. And Australians need to think about these issues. Of course, I respect people who have different views. But if not now, when? And the idea of saying, 'Well, I support recognition, but not this recognition', is really a part of an old playbook.
MARNIE: Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is with us.
PRIME MINISTER: Justice delayed is justice denied, as the great Martin Luther King said.
MARNIE: I'm reflecting that now you're the Prime Minister, previously, as Manager of Government Business, you've worked behind the scenes to ensure smooth passage between the legislation. Are you surprised that you didn't get this support? And does having the lack of Liberal Party support threaten this referendum outcome?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, importantly, of course, all Australians have one vote in this process. One vote for them to consider. Now, historically, referendums have been very difficult to succeed.
MARNIE: This is going to make it more difficult, though, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, it will. Of course, it will. And that's why it is so disappointing that in the press conference today, it was all about politics. This is actually not about me, or Peter Dutton, or any other politician. It's about Australia, how we see ourselves, whether we give respect and recognise the fact we share this great island continent of ours with the oldest continuous culture on earth. And whether we have a process where we listen, we give a Voice to Indigenous Australians. But it appears that some people don't want a voice, they'd rather have a whisper.
MARNIE: Is your confidence shaken over the outcome of the referendum after this?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I expected this. I have had, as I said, we put forward, I was asked indeed, Peter Dutton was one of the people who were saying prior to my Garma speech, 'Well, we don't even know what the question is'. So, I went to Garma last July. I gave a speech which had a draft question and constitutional change as part of the speech. Julian Leeser, the Shadow Minister, was present for that speech. I acknowledged his presence. I reached out consistently. And since then, we had no suggested changes at any stage by any member of the Coalition to the wording. So, I think people who've been watching what's going on here won't be surprised by the decision.
MARNIE: Prime Minister, thank you for phoning in.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Simon.
MARNIE: Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, reacting to the news today that the Liberal Party is set to formally oppose the Federal Government's model for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament after their party room meeting in Canberra.