Sarah Harris, Host: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese joins us now. Prime Minister, for those outside Canberra, the past couple of weeks haven't seemed our Parliament's finest. You pledged to change the way we do politics in Australia. But surely that's not it?
Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister: Oh, certainly it hasn't been Parliament's finest weeks. And certainly when it comes to Senator Van, I wasn't aware he was here in the first place and I'd be very comfortable if he never returned.
Harris: Alright, let's talk the Voice. We don't know exactly how it will work yet, and you seem to be asking people to vote based on trust. So, why should we?
Prime Minister: Not at all. What the Constitution does, is it sets out the principles which are there. And the principles are very, very clear that this is about two things – recognition of First Peoples in our nation's Constitution, our most important founding document, and secondly that we would listen to Indigenous people about matters which directly affect them. Now we know, and we've made it very clear, that it wouldn't be a body that would fund programs. It wouldn't have a right of veto over Parliament. The words that have been put forward and agreed to overwhelmingly by the House of Representatives and the Senate make it clear that there will be a Voice; it may make, give advice on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people; and thirdly, though importantly, the Parliament will determine the functions, the operation, the structure of the Voice. This is simply an advisory body that will enable, though First Nations people to be able to put forward practical issues of education, health, housing, incarceration rates. We know that the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia is big, there's an eight-year life expectancy gap. And we need to do things better. And we know that if you involve people who are directly affected, you will get better outcomes and that's what the Voice is about.
Sam Taunton, Host: Albo, I think I'm more across the arguments for the Voice more than most people, because I work in this job, I'm consuming the news. But even I still don't really don't understand a lot of it. Do you get how confusing this is for most people?
Prime Minister: People will focus over the coming months on this. But it's up to us to put forward the very clear arguments. This isn't something that's come from Canberra. This has come from Indigenous people themselves, who had discussions with thousands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. There were then delegates to the First Nations constitutional convention at Uluru, six years ago now, in 2017. And they decided that they wanted constitutional recognition that's been spoken about since last century but not advanced. They wanted constitutional recognition, but they wanted it in a form whereby they got listened to in the future about the matters that affect them. And that is all it is about. You will see a whole lot of complexity raised and red herrings raised in coming months but it's a pretty simple proposition really, that there be a body which would give advice to Government and that is something that is aimed at – that's the means. The ends is - how do we close that gap on health and life expectancy, infant mortality, on all of those issues. Just one statistic – when it is the case that for a young Indigenous person has a greater chance of going to jail than going to university – we can't just keep doing things the same way. And this won't impact most Australians directly, their lives, at all. But it just might make a difference for the most disadvantaged group in Australian society.
Hamish Macdonald, Host: Prime Minister, as you say, Australians now are starting to turn their attention to this. I want to just put some quick questions to you to see if you can, I suppose, clarify it for so many of us. How many people will there be sitting on the Voice to Parliament if it gets up?
Prime Minister: Well, that would be determined by the Parliament. But there's been a review, it was given to the former government, and considered by their cabinet twice, by Tom Calma and Marcia Langton and that talked about a group of around about 24 people. But that would be determined by the Parliament. So, our Constitution determines the bigger principle, and like everything else, the Parliament will determine, and that will change over a period of time as well.
Macdonald: But I think, as you've acknowledged, people want to understand this, right. So I'm giving you the opportunity to give that clarity. How would people get on to the Voice? How would it be chosen?
Prime Minister: They'd be elected, and that would be the consultation with Indigenous Australians themselves. So it might be, for example, South Australia has a Voice to Parliament already, has been established this year. It might be that it's that Voice to Parliament elects people to the national Voice structure. In Victoria at the moment, where you're sitting, there's an election at the moment of Indigenous people to their First Peoples Assembly in Victoria –
Macdonald: PM, I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible, with respect, Prime Minister. If the Voice disagrees with the government of the day on something, who has primacy there? If you get that advice that says we want something?
Prime Minister: The government.
Macdonald: So the government overrules it?
Prime Minister: The government, absolutely. There is no right of veto of this. Parliament's structure remains in place – is not affected by any of this. And that's been made very clear. All this is, is an advisory group.
Kate Langbroek, Host: Prime Minister, on another topic that a lot of Australians would regard as probably even more pressing, a lot of people in this country are struggling to afford a home or to rent. But the Government let in almost 400,000 migrants last year. Isn't that just making the housing crisis worse?
Prime Minister: No, let's be clear about what happened last year. Whereas what normally happens is that people leave the country and people come back to the country, what happened post-pandemic, of course, was that instead of students who'd finished their degree, for example, leaving and the same number coming, just people came. No one was leaving, because they weren't here beforehand. And indeed, the population that was reached – that will be reached in 2025 – was expected to be the population under the former government's projections already, in 2022. So this is a product, really, of what has happened with the opening up of our borders. And when you close your borders completely, as we did, you've got to expect a short-term bounce back. We have a migration strategy. We expect that by targeting migration to Australia's need, the numbers in future will actually be lower than what was projected.
Langbroek: You've said to the Greens that there's no more money for housing. But on the weekend, you found an extra $2 billion. So weren't they right to hold out for more cash?
Prime Minister: No, they were irrelevant to the decision that was made as a result of the work that we do between us and state and territory governments. And we've been working that through. I've always said – I'm a supporter of public housing – I've always said that when possible we would put more funding in. And because of the Government's responsible budgeting, where we're producing a forecast Budget surplus, we were in a position to bring that forward. What the Greens have done, and they did it again just yesterday, the Greens and the Liberals and Nationals are voting against additional funding – a $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund – which will produce 30,000 additional social housing units over the next, and affordable housing, over the next five years. Including 4,000 reserved for women and children escaping domestic violence, including funding for veterans at risk of homelessness, and including those in Indigenous communities, in remote communities, for repair of that housing. The fact is that if you support public housing, you should vote for the Housing Australia Future Fund, and I don't know why it is that the Greens and the Coalition have combined to oppose that Bill, not once now, but twice.
Harris: Alright, Prime Minister, thank you so much for your time this evening. Appreciate it.
Prime Minister: Thanks very much.