KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Kieran.
GILBERT: The leaders of two peak Jewish groups have written to you and the Opposition Leader, urging you to preference each other above the Greens given their repugnant position on the Middle East, would you consider that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course preferences will be done by the organisation, but I make this point, or a few points here. One is the only reason why the Greens are in the Queensland Parliament is because the LNP chose to put them there, to give them preferences. My objective, of course, is to lead, on an ongoing basis, a majority Labor government. That is what we will do. In the LNP in Queensland in the election that's underway at the moment, talking of giving preferences to One Nation above the Labor Party, I find that extraordinary and it contradicts something that began under John Howard of putting One Nation last.
GILBERT: You said it's a matter for the Party and it is, but it's also a matter for moral leadership, isn't it? Would you consider doing that? And also in terms of the preferences, but also in terms of the minority government, if we do end up in that situation, would you rule out bringing the Greens in any way? Given what you yourself believe, their views on the Middle East are repugnant. They're accusing you of being complicit in genocide.
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. I rule that out. I'm the only candidate for Prime Minister seeking a government in our own right and there'll be no deals with the Greens. I want a majority Labor government and the best way that that can be achieved is by people voting Labor in the election when it's held. Unlike the Coalition that seem to have, they, of course, are a coalition themselves, with the Liberals and the Nationals often having different objectives, and they seem to have written off a range of the seats that they've held historically, don't seem to be even campaigning in them or trying to appeal to voters in those seats.
GILBERT: But given your view of the Greens, and you believe many of their views are repugnant, how do you accept preferences from them in that sense?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't accept preferences. People go into polling booths and put numbers next to names. So the preference allocation, of course, will be done by the organisational wing. I made it very clear, as occurred when I was Deputy Prime Minister in 2013 under Kevin Rudd, that there were no deals done and that was a minority parliament. No deals done in 2013. And I certainly am seeking to be Prime Minister, governing in my own right with a majority.
GILBERT: You'd like people to put them last though?
PRIME MINISTER: I want people to vote 1 Labor. There is something called One Nation whose views on race are pretty repugnant as well.
GILBERT: Okay, you've called for a ceasefire in Lebanon. The US State Department overnight said that Israeli incursions to degrade Hezbollah infrastructure, that they, that the US supports that. Do you?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I support Israel's right to defend itself. We've done that from the very beginning. But I also, along with all of the G7 nations, including the United States, including we were a part of the statement of 13 countries, the United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, the European Union, as well as Saudi Arabia and the UAE, we have said that there needs to be a de-escalation. They called for a ceasefire in order to have peace in that Israeli-Lebanon border and they called for the implementation of the UN Security Council resolution that was carried on that.
GILBERT: So, is it a ceasefire, just to clarify, or do you support the US position to allow Israelis to go in and degrade Hezbollah?
PRIME MINISTER: We have always supported the same position as the United States have put, Kieran. The United States have consistently said that there needs to be an agreement and there were negotiations with Israel and Hezbollah prior to the current escalation. And you need a de-escalation in order to have a diplomatic solution. If you don't say that that's the case, Kieran, are you saying that this conflict should just continue to escalate ad infinitum with no end?
GILBERT: But can Israel go in now? Do you support them going in to degrade Hezbollah now? Because to defend themselves, they've got to push them back don’t they?
PRIME MINISTER: We support Israel's right to defend itself and how it defends itself matters. So, we have always said that from the very beginning, from October 8, I said that on the Insiders program and we did that in the resolution that was carried in the Parliament that I moved just yesterday.
GILBERT: Is that contradictory, though?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it's not contradictory.
GILBERT: To say you're going to support them pushback Hezbollah but you want a ceasefire?
PRIME MINISTER: It's not contradictory. It's the same position that the G7 countries have had. It's the same position that everyone, in terms of world leaders. It's the same position that Keir Starmer in the UK have said, that President Biden in the United States has said, that all of our allies and partners who we work with have said that they want a de-escalation of this conflict, that they want a ceasefire that enables Israel to continue to exist with security. Now Israel is taking this action because there isn't security there. And when people fire on Israel, Israel has a right to defend itself.
GILBERT: When it comes to Iran, does Israel have a right to target the Iranian nuclear facilities? Surely the world would be safer if Israel got rid of Iran's nuclear capacity.
PRIME MINISTER: I think the United States have made their position very clear on that, Kieran, and we hold the same position.
GILBERT: On the condolence motion yesterday, you said that there needs to be a two state solution. Do you agree that there can't be a negotiated two state solution when you've got Hamas controlling Gaza because they don't believe Israel has a right to exist?
PRIME MINISTER: Hamas has no role in the future. But there are some extreme positions in the area, extreme positions of terrorists such as Hamas. There are some in Israel also argue that there's no right for Palestinians, that Israel should be extended from the Jordan River all the way to the sea. That's a position that has been put forward and advocated by some members of the Israeli Government. Now we say, along with our allies, along with the overwhelming majority of the UN, that you need a long term solution which requires the right of Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security side by side.
GILBERT: And Hamas needs to be gone to do that.
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, Hamas can play no role. But that's why when you speak about what a future state looks like, it looks like one which Israeli security can be assured, one where Palestinians have a right to live in peace and security as well. It must be remembered, Kieran, something that when Hamas took over in Gaza, they conducted a violent, a violent period against anyone associated with Fatah and anyone associated with other Palestinian groups in the area as well. This is an organisation that is the enemy, not just of Israel, but the enemy of the interests of the Palestinian people and is a barrier to the legitimate aspirations that Palestinians have to live in peace and security with prosperity. But this is a conflict that has gone on for a long period of time. And what increasingly, increasingly, world leaders understand, whether it's President Biden or Prime Minister Starmer, the leaders of European nations, the Saudi Arabians and others, including moderate leadership in Jordan and other countries in the region, understand, is that they want to see progress towards a two state solution. Because when you're talking about this region, it is so close. The idea, the distance between where we're sitting here and Queanbeyan is the sort of distance that exists -
GILBERT: And you haven't abandoned Israel?
PRIME MINISTER: We have the same position -
GILBERT: Josh Frydenberg says you abandoned Israel.
PRIME MINISTER: It's just nonsense. And what has occurred here is that some people have taken a position that is directly contradicting the position of people such as President Biden in the United States, of all G7 countries. The G7 is the seven largest democratic economies in the world, put out a statement just in the last week which is very consistent with our position.
GILBERT: What about the protests? Chris Minns said he found them grossly insensitive when people were massacred on the other side of the world to have a rally on that day. What do you think about those protests? Do you think that in some ways, people protesting that day implicitly supported the terrorist attack a year ago and the massacre of 1200 innocents?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I said very clearly in the days leading up to October 7 that that shouldn't go ahead. I regarded it as insensitive, counterproductive. I said that it would set back the cause that those purported to rally were supporting.
GILBERT: And toddlers chanting the end for Israel.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's just abhorrent behaviour. And we have seen, that people have a right to democratic protests, but it's got to be peaceful. –
GILBERT: And we're not antisemitic?
PRIME MINISTER: Antisemitism and hatred in any form is just wrong. And what we need to do in this multicultural nation of ours is to come together. And on a positive level, there has been coming together, some of it quite discreet as well, of Jewish and Islamic leaders continuing to have good dialogue, constructive dialogue. We have the great three monotheistic religions all, of course, have links to that region, whether Christians, Jews or Muslims.
GILBERT: We’ve got to leave the differences behind, surely
PRIME MINISTER: Surely, and here in Australia -
GILBERT: But on the visa checks as well, because you were asked about this in parliament just now, this gentleman, Fayez Al-Hassani, he apparently welcomed political members of Hamas and others to his art institute in Gaza. Does this show the visa process was rushed, was not rigorous enough?
PRIME MINISTER: No. I have confidence in ASIO's system and in our national security agencies. If the Coalition don't have that, they should say so. The Director-General of ASIO, Mike Burgess, has made it very clear of the role that the security agencies have, and we back them.
GILBERT: I know you've got to get on a plane. Just a few other, we'll just bounce around a couple other issues. There's a social media summit coming up. I know this is a big focus of yours to finish the year you've had the talks in government. Are you nearing an age that you want to see the age cap ahead of the Chris Minns-Malinauskas social media summit?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's one of the reasons for the summit is to get that expert advice and you want to make sure that you get it right. But it's important, Kieran, that that forum that's been convened will be attended by Michelle Rowland, also attended by the Director-General of ASIO as well, because there's issues there. But we firmly believe that what we want to see is our young people off their devices and onto the cricket pitch and onto the tennis court and onto the footy fields and swimming pools and engaging with each other. We know that this is having a very negative impact on young people in particular. We know it's having a negative impact in society in general as well, it must be said, with people being more polarised, people saying things online that they would never say face to face. I don't look at the comments section on my social media because if you did, it would not be healthy. But this is something -
GILBERT: So, you're getting close to that decision the age?
PRIME MINISTER: That's right. And we need to deal with this as a society. And no doubt one of the things that we will do is to have, this will be a first stage. I mean, this is something the world is dealing with. I have no doubt at all that whatever measures are put in place, you will need to have a review, see how it's going. Is it working? How are people trying to get around it? Can we stop people or minimise people getting around it?
GILBERT: So, that'll be a work in progress?
PRIME MINISTER: That’s right, we won't have a perfect system. One of the arguments against social media restrictions and regulation is that, ‘oh well, people will get around it.’ Well, people get around our underage drinking laws, people get around a range of things in the exception. It doesn't mean that you don't do it because you are signalling values. You're assisting parents as well to deal with this.
GILBERT: A lot of parents I speak to certainly agree with that and the state push and what's happening from that front. Let's hope that there is some good progress on it. On the NBN, this bill today, is that a bit of a distraction?
PRIME MINISTER: Not at all.
GILBERT: Is this legit? Because it looks like a bit of a distraction away from, say, you know, the internet costs and other cost of living pressures.
PRIME MINISTER: No, this is about cost of living. Because a publicly owned national broadband network is how you can deliver value to people, how you can deliver services where people need it and overcome that tyranny of distance. If you move to a for-profit system where companies are accountable to their shareholders who own shares on the stock market, then they have a responsibility to maximise their profits. Now, the truth is that delivering a service, a rollout of fibre NBN is more expensive if you are in a less populated area. One of the things that -
GILBERT: Is the Coalition going to offload it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they could well, Kieran, because they never supported it. They never supported it in the beginning. They opposed it. Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull criticised it. They said that it was about watching videos. They didn't understand it was about the way our economy works, agriculture, delivery of education and health services. Then when they came to office, they undermined it. They stopped the rollout of the fibre NBN and had enough copper to go around the entire planet one and a half times and produced a degraded system at double the costs that they said it would cost. So, we are determined to make sure that the NBN is looked after, that it's kept in public hands, because we know that Peter Dutton is going to be pretty desperate as well to provide some costings in the lead up to the election. I mean, at some stage, Kieran, he's got to come up with a costing on his nuclear plan and they're going to have to find where that dollars are coming from, apart from the $315 billion of expenditure that they say is wasted.
GILBERT: You've got to get to your plane. One last question. You're meeting with the Chinese Premier. What's your message to him?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it will be one that is constructive and deliberate. We have been working on the relationship, agreeing where we can and cooperating where we can, disagreeing where we must. And there are differences between us and China. It's important that we're able to discuss that in a professional and clear and direct way. And that is something that I always do.
GILBERT: Have you taken a more ASEAN style approach in the way you deal with these things? Not wanting to, to have a smoother relationship like ASEAN does? Not rock the boat?
PRIME MINISTER: No, well, where we disagree, we communicate that very directly. But we also what we don't do, Kieran, is to try to score domestic political points by undermining our international relationships. Now, the repair in the relationship has meant that in excess of $20 billion of our exports are now going to, on top of what was there before, are going to our largest trading partner. It's an important relationship, but it's an important relationship as well that we're able to communicate. We do have strategic competition in the region and it's important, though, that that dialogue occurred. When there was disagreement in the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union there were always channels of communication and that is important. That's why Jim Chalmers’ visit was important. That's why as well at ASEAN, with all of the ASEAN nations, Nicholas Moore will have a business forum that will be important as well. Our opportunity that is there by being located right next to the fastest growing region in the world in human history. That's about jobs here in Australia. It's about our economy. It's about our national interest. And that's something that I will always pursue.
GILBERT: Thank you for squeezing us in between parliament and the airport. Appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Kieran.